Would you seriously consider purchasing a Tesla Roadster electric super car while deployed in Japan if a special program for USFJ personnel was available?

Yes (7)

35%

No (13)

65%

Hello everyone, I've been a Japan Bases member since there were fewer than 100 members.  I'm not military, but I run Tesla Motors in Asia - based out of Tokyo.  

I am taking a quick survey to determine how much interest there would be among USFJ and/or SOFA-status personnel in

purchasing one of our remaining left-hand-drive all-electric 2012 Tesla Roadster 2.5 super-cars while deployed in Japan, and then bringing the car back to the US at the end of your deployment.

Aside from being the quickest car on the road in Japan while not using a drop of gas, there are **no car taxes** with the Roadster.  The 5% acquisition tax is waived, as is the annual Road Tax, and the Vehicle Weight Tax – because the Roadster is a 100% pure EV. 
Many manufacturers have special programs for military personnel, and I am taking a quick survey to see if there is sufficient interest among USFJ personnel to try and put together a program like that here too.

Thanks for your time -

Kevin Yu | Director of Retail Development, Asia Pacific
TESLA MOTORS I Japan, Hong Kong, Australia
kyu@teslamotors.com
http://www.teslamotors.com/jp
http://www.teslamotors.com/hongkong
http://www.teslamotors.com/australia

Living on-base and in the towers, I would have no way to charge the vehicle. If a charging station were available on-base, I might consider.

Hi, I've seen a number of 50-amp 200V "RV-style" outlets on-base.  Part of the package we would put together would include negotiating with USFJ to allow for convenient charging on-base, whether you live there or just work there.

If you fixed the run/ charge time on the cars and made them affordable I could see this being cool.

...how much would be the big question!

Price would be the big question. I wonder if the responders to your query realize that the roadster list at over $100,000.
With a steep discount, service availability and help with "federalization", I would be interested.
If you set up a military sales option, I assume that I would not be eligible for the Japanese electric car rebate.
Also how much to have a charging system built into my house and is it the standard J spec configuration?

To all of the comments above:

The Roadster is well over $100,000 USD. In the US the price started at $109,000 and most cars went out at $140,000 + sales tax. I understand that it is a lot of money, but you are getting Ferrari-beating performance for 60% of the price.

But really though, I wanted mainly to see if there was a realistic level of demand among USFJ to make a potential special military program feasible. It would not be a discount from the price, but rather, working with the military to make the cars available for sale, warranty service, and return shipping to the US. Part of the program would be on-base charging.

The writer above is right, it would *not* be eligible to the Japanese 1mm yen electric car discount.

In Japan, I put a charger in my house for 50,000 yen construction cost + the 195,000 yen cost of the charger. 200V @ 70A. I was the first one to do this and it took me 3 weeks. Now it can be done in two days.

Thanks,
Kevin

I don't think I've ever met anyone in the military who could or at least would pay over $100,000 for a car.

To give you a straight answer, most GI's are interested in a vehicle for less than 3K USD that will last trouble free for 3 years while in Japan. If the military were hurting for personnel and offered crazy bonuses you might get a few people to spring for one. Most service members aren't in a position for a vehicle purchase in that range. They just aren't compensated like professional athletes, actors, CEO's etc. By the time they get senior enough to actually have a chance to be in a financial position to buy one they figure out they would be better off investing in their children's education or a retirement home when they start their next career.

Then there's some GS-12-15's with a retirement check coming in too that think they can afford them.... but then again in reality have they ever purchased a 100K+ vehicle before?

The guys selling discounted new US cars and motorcycles are selling many of those, but they are in the 25-40K range and discounted. My opinion is that your target audience would be 40K and less I'm sure you could get maybe one person to buy one but for your trouble would jumping through all the hoops to make it happen really be fruitful?

You will probably get quite a few tire kickers saying they would order one but in reality when you meet them at the bank and have them withdraw 110K they wouldn't deliver.

They certainly look nice though. I had an opportunity to take a high performance top end electric dirt motorcycle for a spin a few years ago and it was a lot of fun.

I am available for deliveries...........

Hi guys, thanks for the thoughts. One of the perks of this job is being able to drive an incredible car. In exchange, we put in our sweat equity trying to move the world off oil and to domestically-produced electricity. My position at Tesla aside, I very personally and definitely understand what a large amount of money $100,000 is.

However, I thought I would ask the question - in case there was demand. I'll wait a few more days before closing out the poll. After all, when Tesla succeeds, we will *all* have kick-ass EV's, regardless of our pay grade.

Thanks,
Kevin

Since all those Japanese taxes are waived as you mentioned in the original post, I'd imagine that the U.S. is gonna charge a hefty excise tax when you bring the car to the States. So despite getting free shipping on orders, you'll get hit with a bill that could easily run 4 or 5 digits. I don't know this for sure, but it's a good bet.

Kevin,
I think you would be better off revisiting this issue after the Model S becomes available. It would capture a larger audience, be cheaper and might also be easier to work with the military... Might even sell some for on base use.

Also, I would recommend setting the military program so that you would sell a US model vehicle at US prices converted to Yen with a discount ( BMW offers 15%, Benz 10%). But sold to us through the Japanese dealer, so that we can take advantage of the Japanese tax breaks and rebates. Otherwise we would actually pay more for the Tesla than anyone in Japan or the US because we would not be able to take the substantial Japanese or American tax rebate. The automobile tax, VAT, weight and road tax is small beans compared to the missed rebate. Thaiguy... If you drive the car in Japan for 6 months prior to shipping the car back, there should be no state tax and because the car originates in the US, no excise tax.... Normally 2.5%.

Although I am interested, I personally am not interested in the Roadster at that price point. Now, if I can get a Model S for $50K, that I will buy.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The automobile tax, weight, and road tax adds up to about 700,000 yen. The US tax credit is $7500. The Japanese cash back rebate is 1mm yen.

The Model S can be had for $57,400 in the US, and with applicable tax breaks, can start under $50,000 without options. The price list is up on the teslamotors.com US site, so please have a look.

Please come and visit our Tokyo showroom if you are in the city.

Kevin

BTW, who can name the carrier in the background of the pictures on the original post?

Would you have to convert this car to American Spec if you were to buy one?

Lichtefeld, do you mean in order to bring the car into the US from Japan?

Yes!

Posted By kevin on 02-06-2012 11:38 PM
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The automobile tax, weight, and road tax adds up to about 700,000 yen. The US tax credit is $7500. The Japanese cash back rebate is 1mm yen.

The Model S can be had for $57,400 in the US, and with applicable tax breaks, can start under $50,000 without options. The price list is up on the teslamotors.com US site, so please have a look.

Please come and visit our Tokyo showroom if you are in the city.

Kevin

Yes, you are right about the taxes and rebates.  But buying a gasoline car using military sales from other companies also avoids the automobile tax... You only have to pay it if you want a Y plate and not an E plate.  The weight and road taxes are also significantly reduced for the military anyways.  The US tax credit is only available if the car is mostly used in the US.  So, it would suck to miss out on both rebates.

The Japanese rebate technically requires that the car be registered for six consecutive years after purchase, otherwise a pro-rated payback of the rebate amount is required. No one has ever had this issue yet with a Roadster so I am not sure how it plays out in actuality. The above is the technical rule.

Lichtefeld - the answer is yes, the car would need to be re-federalized. This would be part of the military program if we decided to do it. So far from the responses here, it doesn't seem like an idea that would have legs...

Interesting, that makes it that much harder. So that means there is almost no way we could avoid paying more than someone stateside?
I don't mind spending the money, I do mind not getting a deal.

Posted By InJapan on 02-07-2012 1:59 AM

I don't mind spending the money, I do mind not getting a deal.

Right on!  Exactly my way of thinking. 

InJapan: My understanding is that military personnel avoid state sales tax. In that respect, unless you hail from Oregon and some very few other states, you would be paying 6-10% less than the equivalent buyer in the US. I may be mistaken however on the sales tax rules.

You still pay taxes, even in Florida when you register it they will hit you and hard unless you have had it registered somewhere else for 6 months previously. That's all part of owning a vehicle it's not just the initial price tag that goes along with it. Florida will also charge you a luxury tax, you may just want to check out your insurance rates for a 100K vehicle too.

I think all states have the same sales tax rules... The car must have been registered for a period of time oversea to be exempt. Usually 6 months. I personally don't know how they define this period, I haven't been back in years.

I certainly have.  When you think about not having to pay rent, or for food, plus getting extra money for retention bonuses, etc...there are quite a few people in the military who have wisely put money aside.  I've known of a few people who have multiple homes in several states.  It's really not that different.  20% down, finance the rest at 2.9%.  $1200 a month car note.  I know TONS of people who could do that. 

Not saying it's wise, but if you're an E6 it's no different than all of the E2s in the states driving brand new $40K cars bought with zero down.

But would they? We have money saved as do many people I know. However, I don't personally know anyone who would be willing to spend that much money on a car.

When I was at Coronado, I saw quite a few $60-$80K cars. BWMs, Mercedes, etc. And I knew of several people who had three or four cars.

Thanks for the comment.  The question I am trying to answer is - since we are a relatively small company, I have to deploy my resources efficiently.  Are there enough people stationed in Japan who would be willing and able to spend that kind of money if we put together a program to serve their unique needs.  If yes, I'm going to get my team on it.  If not, I'll revisit it with Model S later...

How many would you need to sell to the military community on one base to make it worth your time, resources, and money?

Looking for confirmed interest from about 10 people

Kevin, your spinning your wheels so to say... I hate to see you spend the resources on false promises. Just get a 20K retainer from those 10 people before you spend any money and you will see what I'm talking about.

Different states have different rules for importing and their tax fees all vary. I have brought a few back and forth across the ponds over the years.

Kevin,
I just voted in your poll and it pained me to click "no". I want a Tesla, I've wanted a Tesla, I will want a Tesla, but this ain't the time or place. The first time I saw one "in the wild" back in Washington (state) I was confused about this slightly "off" looking Elise that was silently backing out of a parking space; until my brain got over the shock (pun intended) and I started rattling off the stats of the car to the cold empty night and the crazy-homeless-hippy-guy who asked if I had lost my mind. I've followed the development of this car since I first heard rumor of the concept. My heart beats faster and my pants get tighter thinking about these cars. Watching the Nissan Leaf RC at the Tokyo Auto Salon vaporize a set of tires made my palms itch like few things have since my high school prom date was spilling out of her dress. I've listened to every interview with the developers that I can stick into my ears. My copy of "Revenge of the Electric Car" is in the mail. I've been in love with electric sports cars since I built a championship winning 40 m.p.h. electric Kart with some friends when I was a senior in high school. (Actually, the itching palms and tight pants might be a residual from mixing hormones and current...)

In a different situation, like being able to be stationed in this country longer and living in a place where a charger could be installed, I would. This isn't the time or place for me.

Wait, I just re-read your original post. These are Left-Hand-Drive? And would be federalized to USDM spec. as a part of the deal? ...we might have to talk...

FTC: Yes, these are left-hand drive cars that would be homologated and registered in Japan with full warranty, then when you ship back to the US, would be federalized with remaining warranty in the US. A full-on program to support USFJ personnel who want to own a Roadster while deployed, and bring it back home. This program does *not* exist yet, and would take some resources to create, so I did not want to go down that route if no one was showing up to the party, so to say.

In any case, you should come in and give the car a test drive. It's a lot of fun. The Leaf is cool, but it's not a Tesla.

Can the five people who voted "Yes" please PM me, or email me at kyu@teslamotors.com? Thank you.

You mentioned the Tesla S previously, I do think there would be a lot more interest in a $50K car, with warranty and federalization included. even if it costs $60K, I would be more likely to look into that.

Huck: Definitely understand. There is always more demand as price points drop. However, Model S is now sold-out in 2012 in the US, so earliest we would be looking at is 2013. Also for Model S, the numbers would need to be far greater than 10 for it to make sense to do a special program (again, not because we do not want to, but because it needs to make business sense), so I will run a separate poll for that when the time is right.

Thanks!

I’m glad I found this thread. Kevin, I’m glad that you’re interested in striking a deal for U.S. government employees but I have to agree with Yokota, $100k isn’t a good number to be talking about with people that traditionally get paid less than their civilian counterparts. Moreover, the roadster isn’t impressive (other than being a EV).

In terms of performance, I’ve been racing cars for years now and the Tesla Roadster lacks the abilities and amenities that a used Prosche (for example) would have. On top of that a used Porsche would be tons less $$$. It’s too expensive for an impractical car with no structure for charging the vehicle on/off base (that I know of in Iwakuni).

On the other hand, if someone can afford the roadster then I say go for it! The roadster is first of it’s kind. IMHO, it is a instant an American classic. If I could afford one then I would buy it as a collection… but not as a useful car.
I believe in Tesla so much that I bought stock in the company. I can see Tesla being huge in the future especially when the Model S and Model X come out. Kevin, add me to your friends list and keep me updated on the model S and if you play on giving huge government discounts for USFJ. I’ve been seriously looking at purchasing 1 when I return to the states.

Contact the embassy Weenies. They make all the bucks. For anyone wanting a roadster I've got a 1980 MGB I'll sell for a lot less...and you don't need to worry about charging stations while tooling through the mountains of Japan or the U.S.

Hi guys, a couple of points I want to make on the range.

1) In Japan I can drive as far as Kyoto (from Shibuya) on a single charge if I drive conservatively, or run out of charge under 200 miles if I drive very aggressively. It all depends on how you drive, just like a gasoline car.
2) You can charge from a 100V socket, and overnight you will almost always get a full charge in the morning.
3) If you're going long-distance, you can use one of our 25+ Tesla-only high power charging stations in Japan now:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...753418&z=6
4) I've personally driven the Roadster all the way to Nagasaki and back, charging at Iwata Lalaport, Nagoya Westin, Kobe Kitano Hotel, Onomichi-Sakaigahama, and Fukuoka's Nishitetsu Grand Hotel on the way. If there were interest from USFJ, I'd work with the military to see if we can get at least one charger on each base. Again, having seen your infrastructure on-base, I don't think it's a big problem - in fact, it looks real easy.

Thanks,
Kevin

Yokota, Thank you.

I'm really excited about these two new Tesla Models. IMHO, Tesla are pioneers developing a standard for luxury EVs!

I think Kevin should have started this thread with those links, it looks like a very impressive vehicle and company.

Thanks all - rest assured, those threads on S and X will be coming in due time. It looks like a military program may have to wait for those two models to have the traction we need to make a business case!

Why would I want to buy a car that has such a serious design flaw that is not covered under warranty? The article linked below states one of the 5 Tesla "bricked" was shipped to Japan and was not comparable with the electricity over here.

No offense to you but I don't think this idea has been sufficiently thought through.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-m...gn-problem

^^
Great article. That's VERY important information for any owner and future owner to know about. Yesterday, I received a phone call from Mike Ryan of Tesla to test out the Model S while I'm on leave in Los Angeles. I told him I would get back to him but considering that Tesla isn't as bulletproof as I thought they were then I'll hold off until they have a better customer solution for 'brick' products.

BTW, the dude that shipped his Roadster to JP is a @#$^ing idiot. If he's wealthy enough to buy, ship the vehicle then he should've done his homework about Japan. Kevin, stated that Tesla Japan sells homologated Roadsters for the Japan population. I doubt Tesla Japan is selling Roadsters that can't be charged in Japan. It would be the same situation if a JDM roadster were to be shipped to the U.S. without being federalized to the U.S. as stated above.
However that doesn't excuse the fact that Tesla has their hands out for $40,000 to replace the battery.

I'm still very interested in buying a Tesla in the future. The article didn't sway me from not being interested in the young company but I understand the risk associated with relying on a battery-only-vehicle and Tesla's lack of customer protection should a driver forget to charge his/her EV for whatever reason.

I know if I'm at fault in an accident then my insurance will make me pay a deductible. Perhaps, insurance agencies, OR EVEN TESLA, can create a program where a owner pays ONLY a deductible and someone else pays the rest if the vehicle were to become a 'brick.' I'm anxious to see what solution they will deploy.

Mark, There are many things which I would like to say, but this is a public forum and our response to this matter is being handled through our headquarters. If you are military, I'm sure you face similar situations yourself. Lots to say, better if I don't say it in public. Here is our official response: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it Thanks, Kevin

LaCrimsonLey,

For the record, every Tesla sold in Japan is homologated and localized to Japanese regulations.

The cars sold in Japan by Tesla charge in Japan, either on local 100V household electricity, 200V Leaf/iMiev 16A chargers, or Tesla's own 200V, 70A high power connectors.

You can find a map of all Tesla high power connectors in Japan here:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...;z=6 

Tesla goes to considerable expense and effort to ensure that every single product we sell is localized and conforms to local regulations and standards. Customers who choose to purchase a vehicle in one market and then re-ship it to another market do so at their own risk - generally speaking, this has always been the case, no matter what manufacturer is involved. The reason I started this thread in the first place was to see if there was demand for service members who want to buy a US car, get it localized for Japan during deployment, and then get it re-federalized upon return to the US. If it were as simple as "stick it in a C17" I wouldn't have started this thread to begin with

Thanks,
Kevin

Sorry guys, no matter what I do today, the formatting won't come out right on the post.