Today I received a Facebook wall-to-wall response to my inquiry to the MCPON about why retirees in the Air Force are being allowed to use base galleys and Navy retirees are not.   Here is his response, so maybe there's some hope, or at least he has promised to look into the issue.


BT

From: Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (MCPON)(SS/SW) Rick D. West Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (MCPON)(SS/SW) Rick D. West Mike, I'm actually looking at this. One of our retired shipmates asked me about this a week ago. I actually was surprised we no longer have access...with that I will look into and see if its something I'm not thinking about. Hang tough, Rick

BT

Wow, decent of him to give an actual substantive reply.

Thanks Mike!

I know this subject has been very dear to you for many years. I hope all this frustration will pay off one day, and the policy can be changed!

Good luck with the fight.

Just a quick update. Got another Facebook wall-to-wall from MCPON West. He has directed one of his assistants to touch base with me and get all the references on this issue. If anybody has anything meaningful to add to the conversation (emails, articles, etc.) please get them to me and I'll forward them on. At this point I'm sending him the CNIC Naval Message which was put out a couple of years ago along with another message that updated the policy. From what I understand the references only address stateside galleys, not OCONUS. This was brought to my attention today by a fellow Navy retiree who I ran into at the Post Office. When I retired from the Navy in 1994 all the master chiefs on the base got together in Sigonella, Italy, and gave me a certificate that they all signed. On it they reminded me that when I retired that I was still on Independent Duty, still fighting the battles for the troopers. That's what sets aside chiefs in the Navy from any other rank in any other service in any other country.

Thank you for continuing to fight.

Thai Guy - No problem, it's my duty as far as I'm concerned. I can't promise any results, but I have established contact with the Number One Head Kahuna In Charge and if he isn't behind this, we can forget about it. I'm still not sure if this is a Navy-wide problem as I'm hearing different stories from other retirees at other bases, i.e., some bases are letting them, some aren't and it depends on the local CO's determination. What I will jockey for is this - Allow military retirees in all the galleys, period.

@ Mike Applegate, MCPO, USN, Ret. - Good luck on getting the current MCPON to assist you in getting the current Navy ban of Retirees from messing at base galley facilities rescinded. Remember there was another MCPON (i.e. Number One Head Kahuna In Charge) *ON WATCH* a few years ago who was watching as the Navy choose to Deep Six the previous Retiree Friendly Navy courtesy that permitted Retirees to mess at Navy base galleys. It seems that things have gone full circle. Whereas, the Air force culture has always been known to be traditionally unfriendly to retirees, and did not extend the courtesy of On Base Messing Privileges to them, as the Navy used to, the USAF now sees these Retirees they once shunned as a financial resource to be courted to help them keep from closing some of their base dining facilities. This is the USAF’s new Food Transformation Initiative, which is a real One-Eighty in Air Force policy and attitude toward Retirees. First and foremost, in today’s All Volunteer Military it is about money. Recognizing today’s Modern *Bean Counter* Lead Navy, the best way to get the Upsilon Sigma Nu (USN) Canoe Club to repeal their current unfriendly ban on Retirees messing at Navy base galley facilities is to *Show Them The Money$$$* value to Navy Galleys of re-embracing Retiree Dining Customers.

Back at ya' ALNAV Joe - Your insight into the switcheroo is intriguing and you are correct. The pendulum swings. Should the Navy decide to change its policy, you are correct that it will be a matter of money under the current way the government operates. All I asked the MCPON to do was to look into the policy, which he said he would do. He has yet to give me an opinion about how he personally feels about the policy, a clue to what might eventually happen. Stay tuned ...

I hope your communications with MCPON West will at least reveal the administrative history and thought process behind the Navy’s decision that made DOD/The Navy/Whomever think is was a good idea to bump Retirees off the Authorized Users List for Navy Galleys, except for participating in limited special dining, PR events authorized at the discretion of base installation C.O.s. I tried to run down a copy of the original CNIC Naval Message that promulgated this new Retiree-Restricted Navy Messing Policy, but was unable to find it on the web. What was the DTG of the original CNIC Naval Message that promulgated this new Navy Messing Policy? Do you happen to have a http://www...Link to it? I believe this Navy Messing Policy decision was crafted under, and put in force when SECDEF Don Rumsfeld [CAPT USNR (Ret)] and CNO Mike Mullen were at the helm of DOD/DON. Maybe MCPON West can get Boat School educated ADM Gary Roughead to return to the original pre-Rumsfeld/Mullen Navy Messing Policy that embraced Retirees.

Back at ya' ALNAV Joe - Master Chief West, the MCPON, directed his PAO, Chief Sonya Ansarov, to have me email her all the references concerning this issue, which I did today. The references I sent are attached for ALCON to view. Today they opened the CFAY Galley for "Teacher Appreciation Day," which was nice, however I'm not sure how many teachers even knew about the opening. In any case, I won't give up on this issue and if anybody wants to communicate directly with MCPON West, I would invite them to do so via Chief Ansarov. I have her email address.

I've been here since 2003 (hi Mike, I know you and you know meeee!).

I ate at the Galley way back in 1994 or 1995. My parents took me there and there was no special passcode or anything. So I'm pretty sure it used to be open to everyone. I really do remember my parents saying something like "let's go to the Galley. It's great food!"

When I got here in 2003 I think it was still open to everyone. I remember that year or maybe the next year there was a big deal because they closed it to everyone not active duty.

[is my memory correct? Probably not]

I'm not really going anywhere with this. I've read up on this--my friend LOVES the Galley and thinks it is the greatest restaurant on base--and I understand why they closed it off to everyone. I guess I am going somewhere with this: I wanna know why they didn't close it off to non-active duty earlier.

In non-related news, but still on the yummy food topic: aren't they building an Irish Pub at or near the bowling alley? Here's what I think they should do: ditch that idea and make the Galley twice as large. Then everyone could eat there. YUM YUM YUM and YUM!

John - It was in 2004 that this all started (ending the galley gravy train). I realize that not every civilian, or even military person, who reads this will feel as strongly as I do. If you talk to retirees, they'll say to me, "Yeah, you go Mike, do what you gotta' do, we're all for what you're doing." Then when I ask them what THEY have done about it I get a blank stare. I have never figured out if exactly what they're worried about risking when they complain. You can't affect change if you wait until somebody else deals with the problem. Now, the rest of the civilian populace, dependents, GS's, NAFI's, MLC's, etc., well I would say that letting everybody in is not going to happen, so that battle is not worth me fighting.    Somebody else can open that can of worms.    I'm defending the rights of retirees who put their lives on the line for Uncle Sam for now, then we'll see what happens after that.   Problem is, many in this "New Navy" don't feel this is a right, or even a privilege.   I bet nobody at the NEX or MWR is complaining as they rake in big bucks dishing our their unhealthy, overpriced food.   Today I had lunch with some of my colleagues at Sbarros.    $9 for a plate of lousy, greasy food.

Gotcha, Mike!

My question still remains: if "letting everybody in is not going to happen" is the party line from Above, my question is: why was it allowed for 40+ years? 50+ years?

I have no dog in this fight. I'm outta here in 7 weeks (I'll let you know how they deal with this kinda thing at SHAPE. I bet they don't have this problem--but that's because it's a NATO place with everyone from everywhere!).

I just wanted to find out why they let everyone in for so long.

John - You have a point. Looking at it from that standpoint, I would then say it is a "custom" as opposed to a privilege. In any case, the Navy is changing and everything is looked at by the Bean Counters as somebody else in this blog mentioned earlier. The worst part is that I miss the camaraderie of sitting down with young sailors and listening to their stores and sharing mine with them. It's not just the good price and the healthy food. I think some people miss that point.

Mike – As you stated, “Problem is many in this ‘New Navy’ don't feel this is a right, or even a privilege.” The problem solution to reversing this negative drift in the culture of the New, Modern Navy is to foster and enhance Navy Camaraderie, Courtesy, and Custom by refloating the mutual Active Duty-Retiree Sailor Messing Custom-Courtesy-Privilege. Some five years ago, DOD/DON scuttled what had been a long standing Navy General Mess use courtesy extended to retirees. This was accomplished using some transparent bureaucratic hand waving along with message mumbling about how feeding retirees is not justified because it does not support the intent of congressional funding for the feeding of sailors. It is a real head scratcher. After all, the previous courtesy extended to retirees, which permitted them to dine in the General Mess, was not MEALS FOR FREE, but rather MEALS FOR CASH, priced and paid for at the Standard Meal Rate set by the DOD/DON/NAVSUP. All Bluewater Baptized Bluejackets know that the Mess Decks are the heart and soul of any Navy Unit. Any sailor worth their sea salt knows well that the Port Butter Cutter In The Chow Line Is An All Knowing Entity. Chitchatting across the Mess Table and chowing down with shipmates is well known to elicit The Straight Skinny. I fear that today’s Navy leaders flying desks Inside-The-Beltway have lost their sea legs, seaman’s eyes, and likely have drunk one too many times from the deep, dark, black poisonous bureaucratic waters of the Potomac. Apparently, those at the helm of the Department of the Navy appreciate and value feeding nonprofit youth organizations, special tour groups, civilian galley workers, and contractors more than hungry retired career sailors who served in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service or in sustaining and maintaining previous Navy Traditions, Courtesies & Practices. The administrative powers-that-be lack the vision to see that the operational value of casual interactive interfacing of young sailors on the Mess Decks with Navy Retirees relating sea stories is beyond any dollars and cents Cost-Benefit Analysis metric or Pentagon balance sheet line item. Old sailors who love the sea service have much insightful, useful, and actionable INTEL to share about The Old Navy Way that is the foundational core of The New, Modern Navy Way. Numerous times, while messing cross-table from young inquiring sailors who were in the Navy Info Collection Mode, I have delivered sage Stick & Rudder counsel in responding to their career questions, which resulted in an Ah Ha Moment for them that cleared the fog of Navy career pursuit indecision away. The benefits gained from a Navy Retiree pointing a fledgling Active Duty Sailor into the wind between bites of chow in the Crew’s Mess, and launching them from the Mess Deck onto a productive Navy Career, far exceeds any incidental incremental added cost that any Red Pencil-Pusher in the bowels of the Pentagon might associate with authorizing retirees to pay Standard Meal Rates to purchase and partake of meals in the General Mess.

Joe - Thank you for that blog. It is so well-written that I would like to quote from it in an email I'm preparing for the MCPON. I couldn't have said it better. I just found out from my Navy retiree contact in Europe that the bases over there are enforcing the policy in an inconsistent manner. Basically it's up to the whims of the CO's, which doesn't surprise me. You know what they say - "When people don't know what's going on they make it up as they along." That's what we have going on here.

I just received this information from my Navy Retiree Contact in Europe about how they handle this in Navy galleys in the Med:

This is the situation in Sigonella:
Retirees are welcome to use the galley on NAS Sigonella. No restrictions.

This is the situation in Souda Bay:
Retirees are welcome to use the Souda Bay galley as long as they are
dressed properly. No restrictions.

This is the situation in Rota:
For now, retirees are welcome to use the galley only on weekends and
major holidays such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.
Restrictions: Cannot use the galley during the normal work week.

This is the situation in Naples:
NSA Naples has no galley. Prior to it's closure, retirees were
welcome with no restrictions.

Mike,
I am a teacher and did not know about the galley being open to us on 4/30. I just read that here today. Hmmmm, new info to me. That info is not passed down to us nor are we able to utilize that, as many of us have classes during the limited time it is open or we may have lunch duty and can't get away at that moment.
It would be nice to be able to go over there on occasion to use it, but alas, that is not an option to us, nor to the retirees even. That is a sad situation, as they put their life on the line for this country and many others for 20+ yrs. I feel they have earned that privilege and many others not given to them. Thanks for your info.

Vic - Thanks for your support on this retiree issue. The way I look at right now, it's me against the world, but one person can make a difference and I am certainly trying.

The plot thickens people. I have been invited for a Pow-Wow with the CNFJ Regional Master Chief on Command Hill to discuss the issue. It seems like the MCPON decided that this was NOT a Navy-wide issue after all and a Yokosuka-issue only, so a bunch of emails were sent so somebody locally could talk to me and tell me what I already know. I'm posting all the emails I received right here and you guys can make up your minds about what's going on. I've become a bee in their bonnet and as I've said before, nothing will change until they change the Navy-wide policy, i.e., allow retirees in ALL the galleys. They've circled the wagons and defending the status-quo. Bottom line - Navy leadership doesn't care about retirees and it is obvious from reading all these email communications.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert.Shannon@fe.navy.mil [mailto:Robert.Shannon@fe.navy.mil]
Sent: Tue 5/4/2010 1:12 PM
To: Applegate, Michael
Cc: Jimmy.Alcova@fe.navy.mil; George.Tsukamoto@fe.navy.mil; Christian.Mehrer@fe.navy.mil
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Mike,

I understand that you have some questions regarding the use of the base
galley. Would love to sit with you and chat when you can.

Please advise when is a good time. Thanks!

V/R
Bob


CMDCM(SS) Robert Shannon
Command Master Chief
Commander U.S. Naval Forces Japan
Commander Navy Region Japan
DSN (315) 243-7635
COM (046) 816-6931
Cell 080-6551-6667
From US
W: 011-8146-816-7635
C: 011-81-80-6551-6667

-----Original Message-----
From: Markum, Stephen R FORCM CNIC HQ, N00 [mailto:stephen.markum@navy.mil]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:48 PM
To: Shannon, Robert J MCPO USN CNFJ
Cc: Flather, Jennifer R CDR CNIC HQ, N9; Ansarov, Sonya R MCC OPNAV, N00D
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Bob,

We have been getting questions from retired LNCM Applegate who we believe
resides near CFAY. Could you and your N9 (the base) please set up a meeting
(or by phone) with him and explain the galley policy for feeding retirees.
His email address is below.

Thanks.

V/r,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Flather, Jennifer R CDR CNIC HQ, N9
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:03
To: Markum, Stephen R FORCM CNIC HQ, N00
Cc: Cannon, Ed CIV CNIC HQ, N9; Tsakonas, Dino CIV CNIC HQ, N9
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Force,
Here is the regions response...how do we respond to the FB queries? I don't
know.
Vr/


CDR Jennifer Flather, SC, USN
CNIC Food and Beverage Officer
DSN 288-4737 Comm: 202-433-4737
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian.Mehrer@fe.navy.mil [mailto:Christian.Mehrer@fe.navy.mil]
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 18:23
To: Flather, Jennifer R CDR CNIC HQ, N9
Cc: Jimmy.Alcova@fe.navy.mil
Subject: RE: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

CDR:

Rog, we are aware of ability to serve other than RIK personnel OCONUS. CFAY
has a capactiy issue but permits use of galley by all hands at least monthly
for special events ("Month of. . . ",etc) . Will pass on to command. NAF
Atsugi is currently the only galley that permits regular civilian galley
use. ATB,


Chris Mehrer
Navy Region Japan N9
Fleet and Family Readiness Programs
DSN: 243-8824
Comm: (in Japan): 816-8824
Comm: (Outside Japan: 81-468-16-8824


-----Original Message-----
From: Flather, Jennifer R CDR CNIC HQ, N9 [mailto:jennifer.flather@navy.mil]

Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 2:45 AM
To: Mehrer, Christian CIV USN CNFJ; Alcova, Jimmy P CPO USN CNFJ
Cc: Cannon, Ed CIV CNIC HQ, N9; Tsakonas, Dino CIV CNIC HQ, N9
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Chris,
This is not a formal tasker - it came off of the MCPONs Facebook. In Yoko,
you could, if you wanted to, allow civilians to eat in the Galley, though I
am not sure you have the capacity.
Please let me know how you would like me to send this back. I will be
adding on a statement about funding for CONUS and the Air force pilot
but...Would like to respond back the Force by Tues.
Thanks


CDR Jennifer Flather, SC, USN
CNIC Food and Beverage Officer
DSN 288-4737 Comm: 202-433-4737
-----Original Message-----
From: Markum, Stephen R FORCM CNIC HQ, N00
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 13:24
To: Flather, Jennifer R CDR CNIC HQ, N9
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

CDR,

As previously mentioned, here's the blast back from a retiree. These
items come in an MCPONs face book page and then get farmed out by MCC
Ansarov.

If you have more good gouge to send back please share so we can get it back
to MCPONs office .

Thanks Ma'am have a great weekend. Look forward to hearing from you on this
next week.

V/r,
Force

-----Original Message-----
From: Ansarov, Sonya R MCC OPNAV, N00D
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:27
To: Markum, Stephen R FORCM CNIC HQ, N00
Cc: Walker, John CMDCM OPNAV, N00D
Subject: FW: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Steve,

Here is the email that I mentioned to you today.

V/R
Sonya
MCC(SW/AW) Sonya Ansarov
MCPON Public Affairs Chief
sonya.ansarov@navy.mil
sonya.ansarov@navy.smil.mil
W: 703-695-0932
C: 571-748-8505
Fax: 703-614-1609
----------------------------
Office of the
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
2000 Navy Pentagon
Room 4E581
Washington DC 20350-2000

http://www.navy.mil/mcpon/index.asp
http://twitter.com/MCPONPAO
http://facebook.com/mcpon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43070230@N03/
http://www.slideshare.net/mcponpao



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Applegate [mailto:mikeapplegate@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:49
To: Ansarov, Sonya R MCC OPNAV, N00D
Subject: Use of Navy Galleys by Navy Retirees ...

Chief Ansarov - Here are the only references I have concerning the Use of
Galleys by Retirees. Master Chief West asked me to touch base with you,
which I am doing. I want to reiterate the following:

* I'm not asking that anything be taken away from the active duty folks,
they are working hard enough.
* I am asking that retirees be allowed into the galleys, even if on a
limited basis. For example, on the weekends, just evenings, brunches.
* I believe I speak for every retiree who has worn the uniform and served
our great country.
* I believe it unfair that the CNIC Message lumped retirees into the same
category with everybody else on the base. They deserve and should be their
own separate category.
* It's a lie that galleys are "Congressionally mandated," as the Air Force
is allowing retirees to use their galleys.

V/R,

Mike Applegate
LNCM(SW), USN, Ret.
Yokosuka, Japan

Mike, I met another retiree, which that told me they had been following this post.

He said he didn't think it would be a big deal to host the retirees at the galley because there really isn't a huge #. A few hundred is not going to impact the sailors, or the other service members which use the galley.

He said, that the spouses of the retirees shouldn't be allowed, but the retiree should be allowed.

I asked the guy if he thought he would even go? He said maybe, maybe not, but just having the benefit is more important for him. He served his country for 20+ years, and personally I think all that do that should have 100% access and privilege to the bases after their tour of duty. He said to me, I risked my life for the country but now I cannot eat, its just nonsense!

He applauded your efforts Mike. I told him its been something you have been battling for a few years now, and I hope the influence and the PR can have some change to the outcome.

Good luck.

After reading the below emails, it doesn't look like the policy is going to get changed. Keep up the fight.
www.japanbases.com

Mike,

Congrats on getting an email from him and getting a mtg with him. These retirees deserve the privilege. As for the spouses, I feel if they are accompanied by the retiree, why not. They are paying and they sacrificed as well. I know they did not lay down they life, but they put a lot on the line for 20+ yrs taking care of home, family, school, work..... everything by themselves while their spouse was away. I feel they have earned it too. These families are the backbone of the country. 

Vic,

Even active duty members cannot have their spouses go to the galley. Only on special event days. Why would retiree spouses be allowed if active duty spouses are not able to?
www.japanbases.com

Adam - Thanks for the feedback on what that retiree told you. Since they are claiming the problem is "capacity," they don't want to risk opening it up for fear of losing the seats for the active duty folks. In my original postings all I asked them to do was change the policy Navy-wide, and not make this a local Yokosuka-issue, which they obviously have. When I meet with the CNFJ CMC all I'm going to be told is that I'm wasting my time, so I'm not getting my hopes up. At least I got the MCPON's attention on how retirees feel this is another benefit being eroded by the Bean Counters.

I turned down the offer by the CNFJ Regional CMC to meet up to discuss the issue with him. My reasoning is this. Although I appreciate getting to meet him and maybe share a sea story or two, it is obvious that all I'm going to be told is what I already know, so why waste everybody's time? He was going to have the Chief in charge of the galley present, and I don't need to waste his time either. Once again, senior Naval Leadership doesn't give a hoot about this issue and all they did is pass the buck downwards and look at this whole thing as a "local" problem. Well, I'm not done pushing the issue, so it's time to regroup, rethink, and kick in Plan B.

As the late Senator Edward Kennedy said shortly before his demise, "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Mike – Your concern about SECNAV’s and CNO’s policy decision, promulgated in JAN 2004, which did away with the previous long running Navy custom and tradition that welcomed Navy Retirees and their guests as regular authorized cash paying diners at General Mess/EDFs, is well warranted. There is the Feather Merchant Navy, and there is the Regular Navy. You being troubled by loss of this previous Navy messing custom shows you are a true shipmate, and of Regular Navy source. The last three CNOs must not have gotten the memo from Admiral Mahan that says, “The value of tradition to the [Navy] social body is immense. The veneration for practices…consecrated by long acceptance, has a reserve of strength, which cannot be obtained by any novel device. Respect for old customs is planted deep in the hearts, as well as in the intelligence of all inheritors…” I am surprised, because Admiral Mahan’s writings are core required reading for knowledgeable U.S. Navy Officers. If these CNOs had received and read the FROM: A. T. Mahan, RADM (Ret), TO: CNO, SUBJ: Navy Messing Customs, we Navy Retirees would still be authorized to mess at General Mess/EDFs. Your decision to opt out of having a sit down with the CNFJ Regional CMC and Galley Chief is a sound one. It would have been a nice cordial chitchat over a Navy Cup O‘Joe to swap a few Mess Deck related sea stories. However, it likely would have resulted in no action from them on the on the matter because their hands are tied by the current Retiree Unfriendly SECNAV/CNO Directive and implementing NAVSUP Instruction that Red-Lined Retirees off the list of regular Authorized Navy Galley Cash-Paying Patrons. Onward and Upward with Plan “B.”

Joe ALNAV - Isn't it interesting that I asked the MCPON to look into the NAVY-WIDE - repeat - NAVY WIDE - policy and all that happened was a bunch of "taskers" were sent over here from Washington trying to squash the whole thing. The problem is, the way the 2004 CNIC Policy Message was written, it lumped all civilians into one category, so even if somebody in Yokosuka wanted to allow JUST retirees in, that can't happen until they change the CNIC Policy. It's as simple as that, and that's what I'm trying to get changed.

Mike - In the parlance of the “Pirate Mother Ship,” USS Puzzle Palace, your NAVY-WIDE Policy whys and wherefores inquiry to MCPON West on Navy Messing Policy is viewed as an "Onboard Fire" requiring immediate DC (District of Columbia Damage Control) intervention attention to extinguished it with dispatch before it goes viral across the Navy Retiree Community who see their Retiree Bennies being eroded over time by the Navy Bureaucratic "Pirates" who reside at NAVSTA POTOMAC.

Mike, I think it may be time to contact some Congressmen on this issue. I am a CSC and agreed with the policy until you enlightend me that the Air Force allows retirees into their facilties. Thats not right. In defense of the Enlisted Dining facility though, they get their monetary allowances from active duty members eligible to eat there. This comes from the Sailing list/ Alpha Rosters provided from PSD to the EDF. These numbers(headcounts)fluctuate due to people being on leave or TAD and are carefully managed over time to give planners a good idea as to how much food needs to be prepared for every meal to ensure everyone eligible gets to eat while minimizing waste. As of right now there is no way to account for Retirees that may want to utilize the facility consistently enough to warrant allowing them access. Contrary to belief the EDF is not in business to make money. But most definitely are not in the business of losing money. Their only purpose is to provide wholesome meals to eligible members. Can they absorb a small number retirees eating there, of course. Again the issue would be how many are we talking about and the consistency of use of the facility.

BIG BRAD – As a Navy Culinary Professional, permit me to pick your brain on the subject of Galley Use By Retirees. In your Navy career experience as a CSC, CS1, CS2…etc, based upon the different Galley/EDFs you worked at, what was the typical “Ballpark” percentage/weighting of Retirees who ate at those EDFs as compared to the percentage of Sailing List/Alpha Rosters Active Duty Members for which the Galley/EDF received monetary allowance funding (i.e. was it miniscule, small, medium, noticeable)? Did Retirees eating a those Galley/EDFs of yours cause you problems with meeting you Navy Mission of providing wholesome meals to eligible Active Duty members who chose to mess at them. Not everyone on the Sailing Lists/Alpha Rosters eats or chooses to eat every meal at the EDF. How is that portion of the “monetary allowance funding” for the Sailing List/Alpha Roster Funded Eaters Who Do Not Show Up handled and accounted? Did/do the cash monies paid by Retirees to eat at Galley/EDFs help the individual Galley/EDF as “Bonus Buck Income” that could/can be used locally to benefit that particular General Mess/EDF or did you have to send the Retiree Meal Cash received and collected up the chain to NAVSUP? In your opinion, was extending the authorization for Retirees to eat as Cash Paying Patrons at General Messes a burdensome custom over the multiple decades during which it was operative such that it warranted SECNAV/CNO “Deep Sixing” it by unauthorizing Retirees from having regular General Mess Dining Privileges?

Mike, great topic.
I am sure the MCPON would enjoy reading through this blog. You should post a link on his FB account. As a soon to be retired service member, I am in support of your fight. I will be moving to San Diego in a couple months, and will update you as to how they treat the retired there. Maybe by then, not holding my breath, the Navy-Wide policy can be on the way to a change. lol. Keep up the fight for our fair treatment

I just posted this blog on the MCPON's Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/MCPON

BT
Mike Applegate LNCM(SW), USN, Ret. would like to share this link with fellow retirees on www.JapanBases.Com regarding Use of Navy Galleys (EDF) by Military Retirees. Please feel free to join the conversation and maybe the current Navy leadership will modify this ridiculous policy of arbitrarily excluding retirees from sitting down with sailors and breaking bread and staying healthy eating great Navy chow.
BT

Grab for your wallet, Sailors! QUOTE “Secretary Gates Seeks to Slash $10 Billion From Pentagon Budget: Warring against waste, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he is ordering a top-to-bottom paring of the military bureaucracy in search of at least $10 billion in annual savings [Read as “annual cuts”] needed to prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power. He took aim what he called a bloated bureaucracy, wasteful business practices, and too many generals and admirals [Read as: “too many CPOs, PO1/2/3s…”], and outlined an ambitious plan for reform that's almost certain to stir opposition in the corridors of Congress and Pentagon.” UNQUOTE. In Inside-The-Beltway Speak, “Warring against waste…wasteful business practices…prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power,” all translate into budget cuts that include targeting the $$$ associated with Military Benefits, both for Active Duty & Retirees, as well as Active Duty Headcounts/Force Levels (i.e. Reduction In Force "Pink Slips" for Active Duty Sailors defined to be part of Sec’y Gates’ “too many”). Remember, Today’s Active Duty Sailor is Tomorrow’s Navy Retiree. See you at the Galley (unless, of course, you are a Navy Retiree).

Joseph, 1st let me start by saying I am a proponent of allowing Retirees to eat at EDF's. But to answer your question I guess the overall impact of Retirees utlilizing the facility would fluctuate depending on location. IE areas with a higher concentration of Retirees would experinence more usage. In my particular locations in Charleston and Kingsbay these numbers never had an adverse effect on the Mess except during times of increased usage such as, in between paydays or long weekends that fell during these times. During these occasions we would sometimes find ourselves floping and twitching to feed all the additional people that would show up out of the blue. That would tend to tee off the staff at times. The "additional" money collected can not be factored in because it is an unknown until people actually show up. The EDF makes its money on the active duty personnel that are eligible to eat "rations in kind" And No, I do not believe feeding Retiree's was any more burdensome, but I think the thought process by higher ups is that if we let retirees's eat then what about civil service retiree's, or sea cadets, boy and girl scouts, ROTC and every other special interest group that has ties to the government. And we use to feed them all back in the day.

Big Brad - Thank you for joining the conversation bringing the unique perspective of the EDF. You bring up some salient points, however, as the originator of this blog, I respectfully disagree with your last point. I will repeat my original proposal. They need to create a separate category for military retirees who put their lifes on the line for their country. They can't lump retirees in with sand-crabs and local nationals. It's as simple as that. Problem is this Modern Navy is more worried about coming up with lofty slogans like "Global Force for Good" or wearing this ridiculous Blue Cammie G.I. Joe Uniform and not appreciating the hard work done by those before them.

Big Brad – I am happy to learn that you are “a proponent of allowing Retirees to eat at EDF's.” As mentioned on a prior post, I was an infrequent, irregular “walk-in” user of the General Mess/EDF at NAVSUBBASE Kings Bay, GA on the occasions when I visited there. I can concur with you that, per the various Mess Deck Supervising Petty Officers (usually PO1s) I got to know, feeding walk-in Navy Retirees was never a problem there. When they occasionally did start running out of food, requiring them to go to “floping and twitching to feed,” it was not due to the few meals eaten by walk-in military retirees, but rather to a shortfall in their basic meal planning to feed the Sailing List/Alpha Roster diners for that meal. If “the thought process by higher ups is that if we let retirees eat then what about civil service retiree's, or sea cadets, boy and girl scouts, ROTC and every other special interest group that has ties to the government.” --- It is a flawed thought process. MCPO Mike Applegate puts it well when he says, it is “…military retirees who put their lives on the line for their country [i.e. not civil service retiree's, or sea cadets, boy and girl scouts, ROTC…et al]. They can't lump retirees in with sand-crabs and local nationals [and do not] appreciated the hard work done by those before them.” The base pay of those who served Navy Careers prior to the All Volunteer Military Era (Prior to 1973) was by any measure, slave wages. E-1: $78/Month (49¢/Hour)…E-9 [Max]: $440/Month ($2.75/Hour). Google “Navy Pay Scale 1958” and click the PDF at the top of the search stack. Clearly, those now retired shipmates from the Old Navy were not walking in Tall Modern Navy Cotton [E-1: $1339/Month ($8.37/Hour)…E-9 [Max]: $7096 ($44.35/Hour)] like today’s highly paid sailors.

News Flash. I just received an email from the Navy San Diego Bureau Chief/Senior Staff Writer for Navy Times who has checked out my blog and might run a story. Stay tuned as this issue continues to surface as Navy Leadership circles their wagons defending this ridiculous and arbitrary policy towards military retirees.

Mike, Do you honestly believe that Navy Leadership is circling the wagons to try and defend this policy? I think Navy leadership is in a desperate attempt to manage all the resources our Navy has and try and figure out how to pay for all the requirements facing the Navy. Perhaps we should take a step back and recognize that while this would be a nice benefit for the retirees, maybe there are more important fights right now. SECDEF is cutting cash because our country is in debt, retirees eating at a on base galley is probably not a priority. Getting stars and stripes or navy times trash news story will certainly not help!

Bob - Thanks for your input. One thing that inspired me about Barack Obama was something he said when he was running for President. He said, basically, that you can't expect others to change things - you have to go out there yourself and fight the good fight to get things changed and one person can make a difference. Sure, they are worried about a lot more important issues, but I'm not giving up until somebody other than some pencil-head Supply Officer quoting an instruction takes some heat over this. I just responded to an email sent me from a Navy Times reporter and this issue is getting some traction, so stand by for more news. Will it make a difference? Probably not, but I'm not giving up any time soon. You are always welcome to use your real name, your location, and rank to add some weight to the issue here.

Bob – From your User Name, might I assume you are now or were once the Chief Of The Boat (COB) somewhere, and (SS) qualified. I ask you to take a step back as I remind you that the Retirees who eat at General Mess/EDFs pay the standard, published meal rates --- in cash. Eating at Navy Galleys is not, was not, never was, and never will be FREE. How much money did USCINC Bush with SECDEFs Rumsfeld/Gates, and now USCINC Obama with SECDEF Gates, save in their “desperate attempt to manage all the resources our Navy has and try and figure out how to pay for all the requirements facing the Navy” by excluding Navy Retirees from paying cash money for, and eating meals in the Galley? How is or was letting Retirees pay cash $$$$ for meals “cutting cash because our country is in debt?” If Retirees eating were such as money loser, the Bean Counter-Driven USAF would not now be viewing military retirees as an income source to be marketed to help them keep failing USAF Dining Facilities open, and put them back in the financial black. The New AF Food Transformation Initiative (FTI) dining program just opened doors to military retirees, not because the USAF has a tradition of loving Retirees, but because Retirees pay hard cash to eat there, and bring needed $$$$ into their Dining Facility coffers. We in the Sea Service once had a tradition of treating Navy Retirees as honored guests, in recognition of their Navy service, and maintained and exercised the custom of feeding Navy Retirees in Ship Messes/Galleys. This long standing custom and tradition has apparently gone the way of “Wooden Ships & Iron Men,” Flat Hats, Liberty Cuffs, Liberty Cards, Cinderella Liberty, Navy NADS, Dungarees, and Once-Per-Month Pay Days in cash.

Mike, I am glad to see you are staying the course. It is funny how you get told to back off by the COB? yet it is the only post he has. Did someone get tasked with finding your blog online and try to stop you. Maybe you have struck a cord, and just need to keep pressing. I hope to see an article soon, with only 50 days until I join the retired ranks, I will be glad to see change for the better, for retired.

Greg

After being contacted by the CFAY CMC via email I went over to the CFAY Galley for their once-a-month opening today. The food was pretty good I must say. I didn't see any retirees there, but I ran into a boat-load of dependents and other civilians. I was curious to get some opinions about the issue, but I had to get back to work. It is obvious that they are not operating above capacity when they open the place up monthly for all civilians, so I don't see where they feel there would be an "over capacity" problem if they let JUST the retirees in.

The food was pretty good I must say.

The food is always great there! I hope you can one day get this decision reversed. I feel its your RIGHT to have these type of privledges once you retire from any military service.

I heard they opened the CFAY Galley to civilians today. That makes twice this month. Anybody know:

a) What was the occasion?

b) How they found out? (I noticed a line of people outside on the sidewalk while on my bike. I already ate and didn't know about the opening, so I didn't go in.)

Once again, if they claim they have a "capacity" problem, how do they justify opening the galley to EVERY SINGLE CIVILIAN - U.S., LOCAL NATIONAL, HECK - ANYBODY!

It was for memorial day I believe.
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